Title: | Two Letters, John Dury To Hartlib |
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Dating: | 30 November 1638 |
Ref: | 2/6/12A-15B |
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[left margin, Hartlib:]
30. of Nov. 1638./.
[Dury]
Deare freind my last was a short one written 3. dayes ago in it I told yow why that I could not continue the Letter intended to my Lord Mandeville the same cause doth still remaine. therfore I doe not yet send it & althoug in stead of this I could perhaps haue made an ende of it, yet because my thoughts are for this present more sette upon this subiect then upon the other, I thought good to sette them down thus in haste, that yow might haue at least some answer & not altogether bee putte off by delayes in euery thing which yow haue demanded of me or proposed unto me. I will tell yow then what I think of the discourse which yow sent me concerning the prosperitie of my worke wherin the Reasons of diffidence & doubting are sette downe, for which the successe of my labours & endeavours is feared. yow haue concealed the authors name from me, for which I doe not blame yow; yet it hadde beene very acceptable unto me, to haue knowen him, which with so much iudgment hath considered all the circumstances of my businesse; & is able to raise such fundamentall doubts of the euent therof, that they may stagger any man who is not further informed; & could persuade me wholly to leaue off this negotiation, if I were not tyed by oath unto almighty God (thus his prouidence hath preuented me) to continue therin. But now my Answer shall not proceede from any preiudice arising from this ground, as if I would make light of all doubts & difficulties obiected unto my worke, because I am resolued & bound to continue in it. I doe not loue to flatter my self in mine owne imaginations, but <loue> rather <to> yeeld unto the iudgments of others; & to admitte of all oppositions & crosses unto my proceedings, that I may trye what issue God will giue unto these undertakings, which I make dependant only upon him that hee may haue occasion to bee strong in my weakenesse when I shall not relye upon my self in any thing, but in all things, take occasion to looke upon his power & prouidence & reflect upon his counsell fin to find assistance & direction; Chiefly then when I see oppositions & discouragements <to> encrease. for if I should looke either to my self, or to those that first & last haue encouraged me; or unto the outward appearances of affaires; or unto the coniecturall likelihoods of circumstances, I confesse that I could haue no hope nor constancie to intend it any further, but now beeing abstracted from all thinges of this nature; & sublimed by the grace of God aboue all these thoughts; I haue faith in him that hath hitherto called me & supported me; that I shall in ende ouercome difficulties which together with the aduancement of the worke in the mindes of men; seeme to waxe strong & increase upon me. now that my Faith is not a presumptuous self conceited Imagination; I am persuaded; not because the worke is simply in it self possible & commanded by God, & an Euangelicall duetie which your author doth well acknowledge; but because I haue an euident & demonstratiue light in faith, to see the meanes & wayes by which God doth intend to effect that very thing which your author most of all despaireth of; & consequently to resolue all the following f obiections which are inferred against my worke from that Principle of his fundamentall diffidence.
The Chief matter then which your author doubteth of is this; that he telleth yow plainly, that hee neuer despaired half so much of the spontaneous motion of inanimate matter as of the conspiring agreement & unanimous nest of exasperated & disagreeing men: this I confesse I doe not so much despaire off as hee doth: for I know & haue found by experience, that the mindes of men although exasperated are more capable of agreeing thoughts then thinges inanimate of a freewilling inclination to moue. in these God hath not putte any principle of spontaneitie to action, but in those there is a facultie or principle which may bee brought <from potentia> to act, when it is fitly wrought upon & stirred up <by> meanes which God hath appointed. then also yowr author ought not to despaire twise so much of this, as of that, because the scripture hath promised unto us that this shall bee at last brought to passe in the Church of God & foretelleth us also of the meanes by which it shall bee accomplished: Esa. 11. 8, 9. wee there are told that the greatest enimitie & exasperation that is in nature shall bee taken [catchword: away]
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away from amongst the creatures; & that there shall bee no hurting nor destroying any more in all the holy mountaine of God; because the earth shall bee full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters couering the bottome of the sea. here the exasperat spirits of men are reconciled; & the meanes wherby God will bring this to passe is said to bee the abundance of his knowledge & the euidence of his will reuealed unto all those that shall bee in his Church. which is one of the princpall conditions & promises which God bindeth himself to performe in the new Couenant Ier. 31. 34. why then should men so deeply despaire of such a matter which God so solemnely doth promise in his owne tyme to bring to passe? if wee looke upon the 76. psalme where the power of Gods name as it is knowne in his Church is sette forth: wee shall see that the chief effect of his glorious presence there: is to breake the instruments of warre; [left margin: v. 3, 4, 5, 6.] to daunt the stout hearted & cast them into a deep sleep: to cause [left margin: v. 8, 9, 10.] iudgment to bee heard from heauen for the saluation of the meeke of the earth; & to make the wrath of man to praise him & to restraine the remainder of wrath.
what can bee more requisite to make the spirits of disagreeing men to conspire in unanimities if the wrath of man must yeeld matter of praise unto God; & the remainder of wrath must bee restrained, no doubt personall hatred & malice will bee quenched & rooted out, of the spirits of exasperated men. now seeing this once shall bee brought to passe & no man knoweth how soone God will doe it (for wee are not to know the tymes & seasons which the father hath kept in his owne hand), I am resolued not to suspend my duetie which I owe unto his Kingdome; for want of outward appearance that my endevours will take successe at this tyme. who am I to limit Gods power either in respect of tyme, of place or of persons? & if I see that such a thing indeed shall bee effected why may not I, present my self to bee an instrument to further it, although I know not what effect my labours may take at this tyme? here yowr author will say perhaps; God forbid sir that I should intend to dissuade yow from Following this purpose; nay I professe sincerely that I doe highly approoue of your undertakings & pray from my heart that God would giue a blessing unto your endevours; but that which I said is only to shew the grounds of my diffidence of the successe of such a purpose at this tyme; because there is not only a possibilitie that yow cannot find peace; but also a likelihood that the tyme is not yet come wherin the worke of Peace which yow seeke may bee effected. the <not> possibilitie is cleere [left margin: Rom. 12. 18.] from the place it self which is alledged to shew the possibilitie of obtaining it. for seeing it is said hypothetically if it bee possible haue peace with all men; it followeth therefore that it is not possible or may not bee possible to haue peace with some men. & that it is not now likely that peace may bee hadde appeareth from these arguments, first it seemeth not that God hath giuen to the Lutheranes of this tyme a spirit to admit of peace although it bee offered most unblameablely & cordially unto them. Secondly it seemeth that the states men which sitte at the Helme & must promote the worke are nothing at all moued with it. Thirdly the differences which proceede from Religion haue always beene long liued & of a mighty hard composure. Fourthly the misery of these tymes is that eminent places are most sought for & obtained by men least fitte for such a worke as this. Fiftly it may bee your worke is appointed by God to bee rather a meanes of greater hardening then of pacification, for this is sometymes Gods intention. Sixtly, it may bee yow haue to doe with such Antagonists who under the name of Lutheranes are Iesuits crept into that Church to foment the breach betwixt us & them with whom there is no possibilitie of agreement to bee hoped. Seventhly if there is no likelihood that euer Bishops & Puritans will agree & leaue of strife, neither can it bee hoped for that Lutherans & Caluins will agree & lastly the slaughter of the two witnesses must go before the pacification of the Church of God; now this slaughter is not yet come to passe; but must fall out with the ending of the beast; at the ende of the sixt Trumpet: which apparently will not bee till the yeare 1654. therefore I suppose there is no great likelihood of this worke at this tyme here is the obiection of yowr Author, or rather his doubt; for which hee supposeth that the wished for effect of these attempts can not now bee hoped for. to all which I will distinctly tell yow my thoughts, as now suddainly they come into my mind, & as my small leisure will suffer me to putte them thus to paper. First I will confesse that the argument taken from the place Rom. 12. 18. to shew that it is possible that peace cannot bee hadde with some men, is of force & <that it is> well inferred from Hypothicall proposition, <all that> which is said to this purpose. yet I must neuerthelesse testifie this also on the other side; that seeing God hath giuen to his Church so glorious promises & a Couenant of Peace which cannot possiblely [catchword: faile]
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faile to bee fulfilled; that therefore all such implacable spirits as resist the effect of this his Couenant shall by his iudgments which now are begunne to bee reuealed, bee taken out of the way & destroyed from his Church. if then it is not possible to cause the Lutheran spirits receiue peacable thoughts; I may freely gather that the iudgment is determined ouer them, & that God will bee glorified in their wrathfull disposition through their destruction. here I call to mind the place of Esa 26 8, 9, 10, 11. where the different effects of Gods iudgments are expressed in respect of the righteous & of the wicked. the Godly wait for God in his iudgments they desire him, & seeke him early in the same for they learne Righteousnesse by them. but the ungodly who will not regard the Majesty of the Lord neither when favour is shewed unto him; nor when the Lords hand is lifted up upon him; of him it is said that hee shall bee forced to see it & bee ashamed for his envie at Gods poeple; euen then when the fire of Gods ennemies shall devoure him. for his envie & malice shall not hinder the Course of Gods worke to performe the tenour of his Couenant. if therefore I can bee but a true seruant of this Couenant, & find the way of God out by which hee doth hasten in these his iudgments the accomplishment of his promises; I need not care whether some receiue the offers of Godly peace & unitie or no; because I may bee sure that for their opposition Gods intention will not bee stopped. yet if I find that my intentions & endevours are stopped by their meanes; I must looke so much the more unto my wayes lest I foment some partlicular aime which is not subordinate unto God his purpose, & cannot go along with the meanes of fulfilling his Couenant; if I find any such thing & Cleanse my self from it; then I haue found the Lord in the way of his iudgment & haue cause to draw neerer unto him in his Couenant then formerly I was able to doe. but if after a diligent search of mine owne wayes, no such thing doth appeare unto me but I find rather a Confidence in God & strenth in the euidence of his Counsell to fulfill his Couenant by such an opposition; then I haue found the Lord againe in the way of his iudgment in another manner & must proceede against such implacable spirits to hasten their iudgment: in shewing how crosse their Course is unto the Couenant of God; which beeing made manifest their opposition must needes cease either one way or other for either they will kisse the sonne with feare & reioyce with trembling to yeeld themselues unto his seruice; or else hee will cause them perish from the way when his wrath is kindled but a little. I haue some experience of this since I haue beene in Sweden; & therefore I may speake the more freely of it unto God his glory; I haue seene a suddain iudgment upon him that against the light of his owne conscience sought for strife; for a iudgment of death did quickly sease upon one, that would shew his witte in reuiuing a dead quarrell in public, when in priuat to me, hee hadde seuerall tymes discommended & blamed those that tooke such courses. hee then whiles hee was going about, to doe it himself before hee hadde well begunne the worke, was mightily taken from it. but these iudgments are not alwayes to bee expected in such a kind; for the Lord is long suffering & of great patience towards sinners; & sometymes in the midst of their strongest opposition doth take hold of them for good; as hee Did Saul; when hee made of him his Apostle Paul. I know that the violence of some Antagonists in this cause hath brought a snare upon them, & made them in seeing their owne faults recouer themselues & become authors of moderate thoughts unto others. God hath strange & hidden wayes to worke his owne endes upon the spirits of men; wee are to giue our selues uppe as instruments to bee made use off by him: & such instruments wee shall bee if wee can but bee blamelesse & hold forth the word of life unto this crooked generation. [left margin: Esa. 55. 10. 11.] for the word it self will doe the worke which is to bee done, because it shall not returne to him that sent it void, but shall prosper in that for which hee shall haue sent it. & although wee cannot perceiue how farre the parties which wee deale with all are moued by it, yet, it must not moue us to diffidence of the Effect; who could euer haue imagined that the word which Iohn Wicleff held forth in his tyme would after an hundreth yeares <haue> taken such effect in Bohemia by Iohn Hus & Hierome of Prague his meanes. or that the word of Ihon Hus & Hierome of Prague should haue so mightily broken forth againe throughout all Germanie & whole Europe in Luther & Zwinglius age, & since that age to this haue so mightily continued, against so great oppositions. the strenth of God is neuer seene till it find opposition; & then when it seemeth quite to bee extinguished it appeareth most effectual, euen as Christ himself was then most powerfull when hee was on the Crosse in the graue swallowed [catchword: uppe of]
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uppe of death; then hee ouercame him that hadde the power of death & rising out of the graue poured out his spirit upon all flesh to gather in the Church uniuersall. as it was in Christ himself at the first erecting of the new Couenant; so it must bee unto the ende of the world in euery member & instrument of his; at the propagating of the Couenant in euery degree & period of the manifestation therof. therefore as the Iewes before his death did not acknowledge him; neither was hee made the head of the Corner till the builders hadde reiected him; so wee shall find that it fareth alwayes with the worke of Gods Couenant proposed unto a nation; it is neuer truly accepted & acknowledged till it bee first reiected by the builders & discountenanced in the face of this world. for this cause also the two witnesses must bee killed & their Carkasses must lye dead in the streets of the great Citie; that by their Resurrection the world may bee terrified & made to giue glory unto the God of heauen, whom in the dayes of their testimonie they would not acknowledge, whiles they were in warfare with the beast. but after that in the eye of the world the beast shall haue ouercome them, & seeme to triumph ouer them, then shall they bee true and Effectuall Conquerors of the world; for immediatly after their Resurrection when they are taken up into heauen, the Sound of the Seuenth Angels trumpet is heard; wherat the great Mysterie of God which hee hath denounced by his prophets is to bee finished; the Eternall Gospell is preached; & by it all the Kingdomes of this world become the Kingdomes of the Lord & of his Christ; & as for the states men that sitte at the Helme by whom the course of thinges should bee turned; shall wee expect more now of them, then they shewed unto Christ himself; they were no great ennemies unto him when hee was accused of his aduersaries, but rather shewed him some favour & would haue saued him if they durst haue displeased the Clergie: so it is now also; the states men will neuer turne the Course of affaires so as to dare to maintaine Christs Cause against his accusers with full right & powerfull authoritie: it doth suffise them, that they can wash their hands & of his blood <left margin: before the world professe themselues to bee cleere> although they bee not guiltlesse of it before God. they haue as yowr author well saith other endes in such a worke as this is, then that which God doth aime at, or ought to bee intended by his seruants; I can beare witnesse of many of them that they are not auerse from pacification & from the scope of a better Reformation then hitherto hath beene practised; but they dare venture no more for it then Pilate durst doe for Christ. therefore their indifferencie & coldnesse in this worke is to me no discouragement but rather an argument of hope & faith in God, that seeing they care no more for this businesse then their forefathers cared for Christ, that therefore God will bee so much the more Effectually glorified in it; as hee was in the death & resurrection of Christ for there can bee no greater argument of spirituall prosperitie unto a spirituall worke then that it bee found in a Conformitie with Christ & his worke: for if it bee so intertained & dealt withall in this world as hee and his Apostles were it hath a sure Character of the same euent which hee & his ministerie hadde, & that is all that I can desire. I will therefore confesse your authors third & fourth obiection to bee true viz: that the rents of mens spirits growing from Religion haue beene euer long liued & of very hard Composure <left margin: & that chiefly> by Reason of the persons which maintaine the factions such as Dr Hoe is & some others that climbe up to eminent places by ambition. this is true but yet this doth not hinder the aduancement of God his worke in the Gospell, no more the Ambitious Spirit of the Pharisees & Scribes could hinder the progresse of Christ & his Apostles worke after that it was once in a setled course & public agitation: there bee Nicodemusses <left margin: & Gamaliels> also amongst them which in the Counsell of the Elders giue in a good word & stoppe the violence of un- [catchword: iust]
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iust Resolutions now and then. it is true that with men which seeke their owne ends in spirituall places & employments no Euangelicall Peace & unitie can bee kept or gained further then their endes are serued; but it may fall out also & doth fall out that their endes are so discouered that for the same they loose all respect and authoritie amongst those whom they ouerrule & keepe in outward respect by their meere place supported by Civill authoritie; as now it doth befall unto Dr Hoe; his endes of ambition & Couetousnesse are so euident unto all Lutheranes that they are all ashamed of his name, & no man respecteth him but such as for civill respect dare not disregard him. So that those men in striuing against Conscience & duetie to hinder Peace; ouerthrow themselues in their owne Course of opposition, & consequently giue occasion to men of Righteous intentions to preuaile so much the more upon honest affections by how much their wickednesse & shame is made notorius. as for the Iesuits which are said to creep in & take upon them the name of Lutherans & obtain professors places I will not denye but such a thing may bee & that it is not possible to ouercome such<TRANS SWITCH="2"></TRANS> any<TRANS SWITCH="1"></TRANS> Antagonists of peace; yet I cannot bee persuaded that there should bee any quantitie of such now amongst the Lutheranes. neuerthelesse I will suppose it to bee so, & then I say, that although there is no appearance to conquer such an Antagonist of this worke (as beeing no doubt one of those uncleane spirits which come out of the mouth of the Dragon & of the beast & of the false prophet Reu. 16. 13. & which are preparing the Children of perdition unto the Battaill of the great day of the Lord) yet that for all this the endevours of Euangelicall Peace & unitie will not bee without effect, to such as are Capable of peacale thoughts. & why should not wee bee as zealous in propagating the Gospell of Peace as such diuellish spirits are in bringing men unto endlesse strife shall they bee more industrious in doing Euill then wee in doing good? & if wee sit stille & doe nothing for the maintenance of Truth & Peace is not the whole cause betrayed unto them by our negligence? So then their actiuitie to undermine the Gospell putteth a necessitie upon is to discharge unto God & his Churche our dueties, leauing the euent unto him who in the day of his great battaill will decide the quarrell & muster uppe all the endevours of his Seruants to make them effectuall in the great victorie which hee shall haue of his ennemies.
The Argument taken from the disagreement of the Bishops with the Puritans which is thought to bee wholly irreconciliable; is now of greater force then it could haue bene a while ago. this is a particular symptome of the Church of great Brittane: a Synod will bee able to Compose that Controuersie in due tyme if God putte it in the Kings heart to Convocate the same. I think it is more easie to compose thinges abroad then at home; because abroad the matters of state are not so manifold wayes Complicated with the Controuersies debated amongst protestants & the Reformed, as they are in yowr Controuersies at home & then also here abroad the public necessitie & want of Peace is greater & more sensible dangers compasse the Churches about which make all rationall men affect the intention of mutuall agreement. but in yowr new Controuersies or rather new breaking forth of the ould Controuersies; there is no such apparent danger to bee feared what partie soeuer doth preuaile or how long soeuer the strife may Continue. yet I say not this to make the danger lesse then it is; for I know that poperie doth preuaile mainly by this meanes, & that the Gospell is greatly hindered: & many scandalized from the truth; & much disorder like to bee occasioned for which I beare daily grief in my heart which I poure out unto God when I appeare before him.
Thus yow see then what I answer to all these doubts, in which I would haue yow to marke a mistake in the whole state of the question which yowr author doth make a doubt of in my worke. for hee doth not obiect any thing against the successe [catchword: of that]
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of that which I doe mainly prosecute & aime at:
Hamburg this 30 of 9ber 1638. I rest yowrs in
Christ Ioh: Durye
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This inclosed yow see is large; I haue no Coppie of it because I can not putte Peter too much to it in this winter weather wherin wee must learne to studie & write in a Cold Chamber without fire, (but keep this to your self) which is not allowed unto us. I spoke yesterday to Tassius againe hee said hee would write unto yow & send his letter to morrow to me; hee excused himself very much for not performing his first promises laying the fault upon his great occupations. Iungius worke which is about is de Motu Phisico which hee will treat in a new method. I haue giuen Mr Auerye Comenij [Didacticam?] to cause it bee written out for us; I will read it ouer when the written out Coppie is to bee collationed with it. the newes which I wrote three dayes ago of Bannier that hee hadde beaten <left margin: many troopes of the ennemie & gotten> 2000 horses gotten from him; are confirmed to bee true. the passeports are come from the Emperour to beginne the treaties, whether they will bee accepted is a thing uncertain. yet they are giuen in such a forme as the [2 words missing: MS torn] demanded; but the French haue not satisfaction in their [3? words missing: MS torn] the Lord turne all to the best I rest
Yowrs in Christ
Hamburg this 30. 9ber 1638. Iohn Durye
It is past midnight; I pray read ouer againe <& correct> the latter part of this enclosed for I haue not hadde tyme for sleepinesse to doe it.
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A Monsieur
Monsieur Samuel Hartlieb
serutieur du Prince
Electeur Palatin
a
Londres
[top right, Hartlib:]
30. of Nov. 1638./.
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