The Hartlib Papers

Title:Letter, Sir Cheney Culpeper To Hartlib
Dating:[february 1644?]
Ref:13/296A-297B
[13/296A]

Mr Hartlib,
          I shall once againe change my Carrier because I seldome receiue your packet in suche due time as I may by one Champion the Ashforde <carrier> to whome (lyinge about Bilingsgate) I pray sende your letters, he leaues London about on thursday night as the others did &you may I (yf oportunity invite you) sende by him againe on munday night [letters deleted] ;
I expected that Dr Stewarte showlde appeare for Episcopacy, for I euer knewe him a very pontificall man; but that the King cannot change that Gouernement without perjury hathe too muche a [letters deleted] smacke of the Et cæt: oathe which (it showld seeme he thinkes) hathe beene by the Bishops heeretofore (for theire preseruation at ad a dead lifte) soe riuetted into the King's oathe as himselfe &his associates wowld haue lately done for the subjecte; &in truthe to them that haue compared the anciente &moderne oathes of our Kings it is very plain that (to gratify one another) the King &Peeres consented on the leauinge out qua quas vulgus eligerit, (very bugbeare[altered] woorde) &then (that that the oathe might gaine in quantity which what it had loste in wayght, there are inserted [letters deleted] seuerall lines of suche stuffe concerninge the Bishops as (euen (at that time when the Bishops' votes were taken away) it made
[13/296B]

some of my act acquaintance thinke that the King cowlde not passe that acte without danger of perjury, but the yce was then broke &the same reason holdes now; But truly there will be noe right regulatinge of these negatiues, thes corner s stones of Babylon, but by takinge them away &restoringe the People to theire primitiue liberty of disposinge of themselues by theire representatiue without askinge leaue of a 100: selfe interessed me men; And let but the Commons of England stand to theire representatiue; &the question be but asked made by what title these negatiues holde, they muste eyther yelde the swite, or finde a legall judge that wi will confirme their right; Thus without a judge they cannot make good their right, &yf they a once acknowledge a judge they yelde themselues to be neyther the supreme nor yet a peece of the supreme nor further authoratiue then allowed of the judgement of the true supreme I meane the representatiue
I showlde be glad there cowlde be a way fownde to accommodate the militia, for the swoorde beinge settled will settle all the reste, I pray yf you may giue me a taste of it in your nexte, for I muche more desire it then beeleue it possible,
<H? adds marginal X> In an Independents answere to A: S: pag: 27: which you sente me laste weeke; I finde a moste pestilente doctrine of the peoples denying actiue or passiue obedience to the Ciuill Magistrat
[13/297A]

vpon a supposition of a remote possibility of the magistrates abusinge their power to the ruine of a people in case they had not that helpe lefte them, I am soe farre an Independant as I hope this pamphletter muste not be taken to answere for vs all; I heartily wish the Independants will sticke close to this principle; Eyther to doe or to suffer or to be gone but vpon noe condition or a occasion to resiste the established power; And truly yf elections to Parliamente were (accordinge to the Commonlawe of the Kingdome &two statuted declaratory statutes made in Ed: 3: time of the Common Lawe) reduced to be annuall, the omnipotency of power placed &intrusted to in the representatiue wowlde be fearefully onely to the abuses committed in any the hygher or lower partes of <the> gouernemente established, but not at all dangerous to the people, whose miseryes as then (suppose the woorste) cowlde not liue aboue a yeere but by theire owne consente, &(in truthe) when our representatiue hathe done its woorke (in regulating <freeing> the gouernemente from the incroachments of conquestes &tiranny), it selfe wowlde be allsoe soe farre reduced as to be able to doe all thinges but <not> make it selfe perpetuall for (as I sayd before) annuall election becomes the peoples higheste security as well againstee the Par Representative it selfe, as againste the abuse of any parte of the gouurnement established by it <H? adds marginal X>
I pray once againe giue me a taste of the way of accommodation concerning the militia
[13/297B]

          For Mr Samuell Hartlib
          at his house
          in Dukes place
               London
[Seal: snail]