The Hartlib Papers

Title:Copy Letters In Hand B, John Dury To Cheney Culpeper &Culpeper To Dury
Dating:25 September 1648, 26 September 1648
Ref:12/23A-26B: 24B-26B BLANK
[12/23A]

Sir cheny:
I Conceive that the difficultie which my Lady Ranalaugh did propose unto me concerning Mounsieur Pruvosts ordinance which should be past in the Houses to in vite him againe hither may be thus removed. Let the Trustees who shall bee appointed to Regulat matters by his advice; bee limited and instructed not to alter the fundamentall way of trading in staple comodities which this nation doth send abroad to other countries; [&?] this clause may bee inserted as a Proviso in the Ordinance it selfe; but as for all other comodities which are brought in hither from other Countryes which some particular men doe engrosse for privat advantage; or other commodities which are scarse, and in the handes only of some few, who keep the markets at a deare rate; as Fish, which might bee a staple commoditie of this nation farre more iustly &easily then it is of Holland (who take all their fish on our coasts for want of Industrie in us) I say all such commodities which now are not staple but may become such; by his contrivance of multiplying the same and selling the overplus abroad as the Hollanders doe againe I say that all such commodities now not staple amongst us, which he can make staple; if he encreaseth the quantity of them soe, as to make us furnish our neighbours with them, wheras now we are forced to buy them from them: whatsoever hee shall alter in the way of Trade about them must not bee counted a fundamentall alteration, or if it bee, it must bee allowed and counted a change for the better for if now the most part of the handes and stockes of the Kingdome are either altogether Idle and useles, or not improoved to what they may be if he shew a way to set them all a worke and make them <H: more> profitable; will not this bee an alteration for the better? &what although even in the most staple Commodities of this kingdome as Cloath Tinne and Leade &c. there should be an alteration in the way of Trading but evidently for the better what prejudice could this bee? therefore I conceive that the staple commodities which are now setled into Corporations for trade throughout the Kingdome may bee excepted expresly in the ordinance; and that the Trade with which the Trustees by Mounsieur Pruvost his advice should [catchword: medle]
[12/23B]

medle, should bee only of Commodities which are not now staple but by his industrie may bee made such; either by the improoement of Fishing or by the foundation of the Plantation and improovment of Husbandrie this is one way to prevent this objection. another way may bee this, to oblige Mounsieur Pruvost to deale in the presence of the Trustees, with all those that pretend to an interest or a right to any trade; to give them iust satisfaction that they may not complaine of any wrong done unto them &that hee may make it appeare that all the profit which they can hope for in a setled and just way, shall bee secured unto them only that without their least damage, nay with their greater benefit then ordinarily, then they can expect, the public (which is now prejudiced[altered] by their way of trading) may be advantaged also. which was that which he offered to the fish Merchants; &would have hadde a conference before the Gentelmen that were committed upon his buisnes which the chief merchands that have monopolized that trade but he could never come to any meeting with them about it for they would accept of noe offers nor did the Comittee call for any of them to conferre with Mounsieur Pruvost about the buisnes; but if the Trustees bee ordered by the Houses to heare and judge of such debates as these for the ordering of Trade in all commodities which are not staple; then I supose there can bee noe cause of any such jealousie as is conceived by what I heard from yow by my Ladyes report. I wish I could have seene yow whiles I was at London and conferred with [yow? blotted] about this and other matters the Lord direct yow in all yowr wayes I rest
               Sir
                         your faithfull &affectionate
                             Servant in Christ
                                     Ioh: Dury.
Sion: house
Sept: 25:
    1648.
[12/24A]

[left margin: Mr Dury]
I give yow very many thanks for your letter which (by it 2 expedientes but especially by the last) hath given me ample sattisfaction &in truth if Mounsieur Prvvost can demonstrate how the Merchants may gaine more (in proportion to what they venture) upon the staple Commodities of this Kingdome managed as Mounsieur Pruvost would direct then the subtilest of them doe the ordinary way, and with all that the rest of the Kingdome (though monyed men [only?] and not Merchants might yet doe the like, I can see noe better reason, why those Monopolists, should [deire? altered], or the State suffer that (even in staple Commodities) there might not be a change for the best. But now this Answer leads me to another Question which I made to my Lady, as that which transcends or passes through all his severall propositions, The Question is this. How the certainty per centum which is disigned to the private adventurer, and the surplusage which is designed to the parliament will be secured to them, at least till time and experience have raysed a good opinion of what is proposed, For (I conceive) it can not bee expected[altered] that at the begining, &before the buisnes be fully experimented, that either the publique[altered from pulique] or Privat will leave a certeine or setled way, for a new and vnexperimented one, though perhaps hold forth upon rationall grounds; my owne thought made the first Quere concerning the private person both for the principall and yearly proffit, and this afternoone a Parl: man made the second as thinking it vnlikly that the Public would forgoe their customes and other Impostes for a remaynder [after?] 20 lb per centum, that was the summe I proposed[H alters from propounded] to the Privat Adventurer[H capitalises].
The answere I made to myselfe and the parl: man, was that I conceived that they who proposed the buisnes would let their owne stocke bee a securitie to both, as farre as it would goe, This expedient I proposed, till yow could <H?: hold> forth a better. This I am confident of that (without some security at the begining) reason (be it never soe strong) will hardly draw mony out of mens coffers. I pray afford me an answer (at your convenience to these last Queries.
With my best respects to yow I rest
                   your affectionate friend &servant
                        [C backwards?]C Culpeper.
[left margin:]
Sept: 26:
   1648